Genesis creation: Alternative Interpretation - Fulfilled Theology - Preterist2024-03-29T12:54:42Zhttp://fulfilledtheology.ning.com/forum/topics/genesis-creation-alternative?commentId=5096844%3AComment%3A40&feed=yes&xn_auth=noI like the idea of a local pe…tag:fulfilledtheology.ning.com,2011-12-11:5096844:Comment:51022011-12-11T11:16:59.548ZMartin Willemoes Hansenhttp://fulfilledtheology.ning.com/profile/MartinWillemoesHansen
<p>I like the idea of a local perspective of God's creation IE from the land of Israel, though I do not see any Biblical reason to not have Adam and Eve to be the very first human beings ever, and the plants and animals being the very first as well.</p>
<p>I like the idea of a local perspective of God's creation IE from the land of Israel, though I do not see any Biblical reason to not have Adam and Eve to be the very first human beings ever, and the plants and animals being the very first as well.</p> I would like to add one more…tag:fulfilledtheology.ning.com,2011-12-02:5096844:Comment:45092011-12-02T18:39:47.383ZDonaldhttp://fulfilledtheology.ning.com/profile/Donald
<p>I would like to add one more thing. Notice in Gen. 6:4 says that the <em>Nephilim were on the earth (land) in those (Noah's) days and also afterward</em>. Some centuries later when Moses sent some spies in the land of Canaan (Israel), they saw the Nephilim dwelt in there (Num. 13:33). This pretty much destroyed the global flood view. Not only this, the flood occured within the Promised Land.</p>
<p>I would like to add one more thing. Notice in Gen. 6:4 says that the <em>Nephilim were on the earth (land) in those (Noah's) days and also afterward</em>. Some centuries later when Moses sent some spies in the land of Canaan (Israel), they saw the Nephilim dwelt in there (Num. 13:33). This pretty much destroyed the global flood view. Not only this, the flood occured within the Promised Land.</p> Hello everyone,
I was looki…tag:fulfilledtheology.ning.com,2011-12-02:5096844:Comment:45082011-12-02T18:38:08.451ZDonaldhttp://fulfilledtheology.ning.com/profile/Donald
<p>Hello everyone,</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I was looking for some passages in regard with the location of the Eden and here’s the list:</p>
<p> </p>
<p>2 Kings 19:10 `Thus do ye speak unto Hezekiah king of Judah, saying, Let not thy God lift thee up in whom thou art trusting, saying, Jerusalem is not given into the hand of the king of Asshur. 11 Lo, thou hast heard that which the kings of Asshur have done to all the lands -- to devote them; and thou art delivered! 12 did the gods of the nations deliver…</p>
<p>Hello everyone,</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I was looking for some passages in regard with the location of the Eden and here’s the list:</p>
<p> </p>
<p>2 Kings 19:10 `Thus do ye speak unto Hezekiah king of Judah, saying, Let not thy God lift thee up in whom thou art trusting, saying, Jerusalem is not given into the hand of the king of Asshur. 11 Lo, thou hast heard that which the kings of Asshur have done to all the lands -- to devote them; and thou art delivered! 12 did the gods of the nations deliver them whom my fathers destroyed -- Gozan, and Haran, and Rezeph, and the sons of Eden, who [are] in Thelassar? (Isa. 37:10-12)</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Seems somewhere north or west near Israel or within the Promised Land.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Isa. 51:2 Look attentively unto Abraham your father, And unto Sarah -- she bringeth you forth, For -- one -- I have called him, And I bless him, and multiply him. 3 For Jehovah hath comforted Zion, He hath comforted all her wastes, And He setteth her wilderness as Eden, And her desert as a garden of Jehovah, Joy, yea, gladness is found in her, Confession, and the voice of song.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Notice Zion and Eden located within the Promised Land.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Ezek. 28:12 `Son of man, lift up a lamentation for the king of Tyre, And thou hast said to him: Thus said the Lord Jehovah: Thou art sealing up a measurement, Full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. 13 In Eden, the garden of God, thou hast been, Every precious stone thy covering, Ruby, topaz, and diamond, beryl, onyx, and jasper, Sapphire, emerald, and carbuncle, and gold, The workmanship of thy tabrets, and of thy pipes, In thee in the day of thy being produced, have been prepared. 14 Thou [art] an anointed cherub who is covering, And I have set thee in the holy mount, God thou hast been, In the midst of stones of fire thou hast walked up and down.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>This was speaking to the king of Tyre (not “Satan”) which God set himin the holy mount (Jerusalem)?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Ezek. 31:9 Fair I have made him in the multitude of his thin shoots, And envy him do all trees of Eden that [are] in the garden of God. …16 From the sound of his fall I have caused nations to shake, In My causing him to go down to sheol, With those going down to the pit, And comforted in the earth -- the lower part, are all trees of Eden, The choice and the good of Lebanon, All drinking waters. …18 Unto whom hast thou been thus like, In honour and in greatness among the trees of Eden, And thou hast been brought down with the trees of Eden, Unto the earth -- the lower part, In the midst of the uncircumcised thou liest, With the pierced of the sword? It [is] Pharaoh, and all his multitude, An affirmation of the Lord Jehovah!'</p>
<p> </p>
<p>In this context, God sent His message to Pharaoh king of Egypt and to his hordes that Assyria is going to invade them from Lebanon (Ezek. 31:2-3). It seems that the garden of Eden was within the Promised Land.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Ezek. 31:32 Not for your sake am I working, An affirmation of the Lord Jehovah, Be it known to you, Be ashamed and confounded, because of your ways, O house of Israel. 33 Thus said the Lord Jehovah: In the day of My cleansing you from all your iniquities, I have caused the cities to be inhabited, And the wastes have been built, 34 And the desolate land is tilled, Instead of which it was a desolation before the eyes of every passer by, 35 And they have said: This land, that was desolated, Hath been as the garden of Eden, And the cities -- the wasted, And the desolated, and the broken down, Fenced places have remained.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>God was speaking to the house of Israel where the garden of Eden was located.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Joel 2:1 Blow ye a trumpet in Zion, And shout ye in My holy hill, Tremble do all inhabitants of the earth, For coming is the day of Jehovah, for [it is] near! 2 A day of darkness and thick darkness, A day of cloud and thick darkness, As darkness spread on the mountains, A people numerous and mighty, Like it there hath not been from of old, And after it there is not again -- till the years of generation and generation. 3 Before it consumed hath fire, And after it burn doth a flame, As the garden of Eden [is] the land before it, And after it a wilderness -- a desolation! And also an escape there hath not been to it,</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Notice this passage says Zion, His holy hill and the garden of Eden. It seems to be in the Promised Land.</p> From Rivers:
Here is the ev…tag:fulfilledtheology.ning.com,2011-12-02:5096844:Comment:45072011-12-02T18:36:32.399ZDonaldhttp://fulfilledtheology.ning.com/profile/Donald
<p>From Rivers:</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Here is the evidence from scripture about the location of the "four rivers" of Eden (Genesis 2:10-14) that I think you are missing when you insist (from secular sources) that they were located in Sumeria (which is never mentioned in scripture).</p>
<p> </p>
<p>1. The "Euphrates" river (Genesis 2:14) was said to be the eastern border of the Promised Land (Genesis 15:18; Exodus 23:31; Joshua 1:4) as well as the Davidic Kingdom (1 Chronicles 18:3; 2 Chronicles…</p>
<p>From Rivers:</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Here is the evidence from scripture about the location of the "four rivers" of Eden (Genesis 2:10-14) that I think you are missing when you insist (from secular sources) that they were located in Sumeria (which is never mentioned in scripture).</p>
<p> </p>
<p>1. The "Euphrates" river (Genesis 2:14) was said to be the eastern border of the Promised Land (Genesis 15:18; Exodus 23:31; Joshua 1:4) as well as the Davidic Kingdom (1 Chronicles 18:3; 2 Chronicles 9:26).</p>
<p> </p>
<p>2. The Pishon river (Genesis 2:11) was located in the land of Havilah which was located "east of Egypt" on the way north to Assyria (Genesis 25:18). In scripture, "east of Egypt" referred to the area southwest of the Jordan River Valley where the Philistines were (Joshua 3:13; 2 Chronicles 9:26). It was located northeast of the "wilderness of Shur" where the Israelites ended up when Moses first led them out of Egypt (Exodus 15:22). Saul also conquered "Havilah" as part of the Promised Land (1 Samuel 15:7).</p>
<p> </p>
<p>3. The Gihon river (Genesis 2:13) flowed in the southern part of the Promised Land near Jerusalem (2 Chronicles 32:30) where King Solomon was annointed (1 Kings 1:45). It flowed around the land of "Cush" which was near "Havilah" (Genesis 10:7) in the area of Phillistines between the Jordan River, the Mediterranean Sea, and the Sinai wilderness. Moses got one of his wives there before the people crossed over the Jordan River (Numbers 12:1).</p>
<p> </p>
<p>4. The Hiddikel flowed "east of Assyria" (Genesis 10:14) where Daniel was taken into captivity (Daniel 10:4).</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Thus, the way the biblical writers used the words associated with these rivers and their location puts them all in the area between the Sinai Penninsula, the Jordan River, and Assyria which were within or near the borders of the Promised Land and the Davidic Kingdom (Joshua 1:2-4; 2 Chronicles 9:26).</p>
<p> </p>
<p>There is no indication that the Hebrews (or their language) associated any of the rivers with "Sumeria" or the Persian Gulf which was hundreds of miles too far south and east. We simply don't have any vocabulary in scripture to account for those regions. Thus, there's no reason to think the Israelites even understood anything about those people or places.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Rivers :)</p>
<p>riverosfeden4@gmail.com</p> From Rivers:
Hi Donald,
Y…tag:fulfilledtheology.ning.com,2011-12-02:5096844:Comment:46022011-12-02T18:35:26.140ZDonaldhttp://fulfilledtheology.ning.com/profile/Donald
<p>From Rivers:</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Hi Donald,</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Yes, I agree. I also don't think it's a coincidence that God named the "Eurphrates" River in Eden as well as the Promised Land (Genesis 2:8-11; Genesis 15:18) and that Abram was a pure blood descendant of Adam (1 Chronicles 1:1-4, 24). Of course, all the descriptions of the borders of the Promised Land (Joshua 1:1-4) and the Kingdom Of God (2 Chronicles 9:26; 1 Kings 4:21, 24) also include the Euphrates and the wilderness region…</p>
<p>From Rivers:</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Hi Donald,</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Yes, I agree. I also don't think it's a coincidence that God named the "Eurphrates" River in Eden as well as the Promised Land (Genesis 2:8-11; Genesis 15:18) and that Abram was a pure blood descendant of Adam (1 Chronicles 1:1-4, 24). Of course, all the descriptions of the borders of the Promised Land (Joshua 1:1-4) and the Kingdom Of God (2 Chronicles 9:26; 1 Kings 4:21, 24) also include the Euphrates and the wilderness region (Havilah, Cush) where the Pishon and Gihon also flowed (Genesis 2:11-13).</p>
<p> </p>
<p>It's also interesting that the "Tree Of Life" from the "midst of the garden" (Genesis 2:9) also shows up in "the new Jerusalem" (Revelation 21:2; Revelation 22:2) at the consummation of prophecy.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Rivers :)</p>
<p>riverosfeden4@gmail.com</p> Rivers,
Another thing about t…tag:fulfilledtheology.ning.com,2011-12-02:5096844:Comment:45062011-12-02T18:34:38.829ZDonaldhttp://fulfilledtheology.ning.com/profile/Donald
<p>Rivers,</p>
<p>Another thing about the location of the garden of Eden. You said it is somewhere in Israel, probably in Jerusalem. I thought it was interesting. Now I noticed after the flood of Noah (it was local, of course), the sons of Noah journeyed east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar and settled there (Gen 11:1). Seems that the flood occured somewhere in Israel and then they travaled to east. A few generations later, Abraham lived in Ur of the Chaldeans (Gen. 11:28) and…</p>
<p>Rivers,</p>
<p>Another thing about the location of the garden of Eden. You said it is somewhere in Israel, probably in Jerusalem. I thought it was interesting. Now I noticed after the flood of Noah (it was local, of course), the sons of Noah journeyed east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar and settled there (Gen 11:1). Seems that the flood occured somewhere in Israel and then they travaled to east. A few generations later, Abraham lived in Ur of the Chaldeans (Gen. 11:28) and God called him out to the Land which He promised for Abraham and his descendants.</p> Don...I noted to JL sometime…tag:fulfilledtheology.ning.com,2011-07-27:5096844:Comment:24062011-07-27T22:40:54.180ZKen Palmerhttp://fulfilledtheology.ning.com/profile/KenPalmer
<span>Don...I noted to JL sometime ago that Adam is confirmed a priest in scripture. Gen 2:15 As God's priest, he was “to dress it (Hebrew, abad) and to keep it (Hebrew, shamar)”. Shamar means not only to keep, but also to guard and to protect. So too Noah was to “keep” the animals Genesis 6:19–20, 7:3 and Abraham and Israel were admonished to “keep” God’s covenant. The priests and Levites were also to serve (abad), protect (shamar) and guard (another Hebrew word,mishmereth) the sanctuary…</span>
<span>Don...I noted to JL sometime ago that Adam is confirmed a priest in scripture. Gen 2:15 As God's priest, he was “to dress it (Hebrew, abad) and to keep it (Hebrew, shamar)”. Shamar means not only to keep, but also to guard and to protect. So too Noah was to “keep” the animals Genesis 6:19–20, 7:3 and Abraham and Israel were admonished to “keep” God’s covenant. The priests and Levites were also to serve (abad), protect (shamar) and guard (another Hebrew word,mishmereth) the sanctuary from unauthorized people, with the sword if necessary. See Numbers 1:51–53, 8:26, 18:2–7, 31:30, 47; Joshua 22:27 and Ezekiel 44:8, 15 .The Israeli Theocracy was to be a light unto the world Isa 42:6, just as Adam was as well Gen 1:28...come over to CP.<br/><br/></span> Donald,
Thanks for the link.…tag:fulfilledtheology.ning.com,2010-03-26:5096844:Comment:2142010-03-26T21:37:16.000ZJL Vaughnhttp://fulfilledtheology.ning.com/profile/JLVaughn
Donald,<br />
<br />
Thanks for the link.<br />
<br />
I believe the author has one significant error. In Wiseman's view, the tablets were passed from one author to another. There was nothing for Moses to compile. The compilation was already done. Each author added his tablet to the stack.
Donald,<br />
<br />
Thanks for the link.<br />
<br />
I believe the author has one significant error. In Wiseman's view, the tablets were passed from one author to another. There was nothing for Moses to compile. The compilation was already done. Each author added his tablet to the stack. Here's the link that JL Vaugh…tag:fulfilledtheology.ning.com,2010-03-26:5096844:Comment:2122010-03-26T19:23:36.000ZDonaldhttp://fulfilledtheology.ning.com/profile/Donald
Here's the link that JL Vaughn referring to the Wiseman I just found:<br />
<a href="http://www.trueorigin.org/tablet.asp" target="_blank">http://www.trueorigin.org/tablet.asp</a>
Here's the link that JL Vaughn referring to the Wiseman I just found:<br />
<a href="http://www.trueorigin.org/tablet.asp" target="_blank">http://www.trueorigin.org/tablet.asp</a> Donald,
According to Wiseman…tag:fulfilledtheology.ning.com,2010-03-26:5096844:Comment:2112010-03-26T18:02:32.000ZJL Vaughnhttp://fulfilledtheology.ning.com/profile/JLVaughn
Donald,<br />
<br />
According to Wiseman, Gen. 1:1-2:4 was written first. Adam had a clay tablet, with Gen. 1:1-2:4 in Sumerian pictograph cuneiform in his hands. He added the next tablet to the first in the standard Sumerian manner.<br />
<br />
Neither Wiseman nor Walton believes H&E is a person or people. (Walton believes H&E are God's people in the New Testament, but adamantly refuses to consider it in the Old, even in the prophets, i.e. Jer. 4:23) Wiseman fudged. After saying "TOLEDAH" means "Written by"…
Donald,<br />
<br />
According to Wiseman, Gen. 1:1-2:4 was written first. Adam had a clay tablet, with Gen. 1:1-2:4 in Sumerian pictograph cuneiform in his hands. He added the next tablet to the first in the standard Sumerian manner.<br />
<br />
Neither Wiseman nor Walton believes H&E is a person or people. (Walton believes H&E are God's people in the New Testament, but adamantly refuses to consider it in the Old, even in the prophets, i.e. Jer. 4:23) Wiseman fudged. After saying "TOLEDAH" means "Written by" he claims in Gen. 2:4 that it means "Written for" and that it was written by God and handed to Adam. Walton claims the entire book was written by Moses, but never bothers to explain why Moses used standard Sumerian forms some 600 years after ancient Sumer ceased to exist.<br />
<br />
Basically, I can't tell you (yet?) whether H&E was Adam, if H&E was a group of people that included Adam, or if H&E preceded Adam. All appear to work. My inclination is to go with the second, that Adam was dedicated as the priest of God's people on the 6th day and was likely the author of the first tablet. Going with the first doesn't change much, Adam is still the author. The third choice makes someone before Adam the author.<br />
<br />
Blessings.