Fulfilled Theology - Preterist2024-03-29T04:41:36ZRiversOfEdenhttp://fulfilledtheology.ning.com/profile/RiversOfEdenhttp://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/3133619804?profile=RESIZE_48X48&width=48&height=48&crop=1%3A1http://fulfilledtheology.ning.com/forum/topic/listForContributor?user=0vyxgyoxvp9ie&feed=yes&xn_auth=noGenesis creation accounts (Gen. 1:1 to 2:4)tag:fulfilledtheology.ning.com,2013-02-18:5096844:Topic:80282013-02-18T19:14:55.660ZRiversOfEdenhttp://fulfilledtheology.ning.com/profile/RiversOfEden
<p>Here is what I would interpret from the Genesis creation accounts:<br></br> <br></br> Gen 1:1 A beginning of Elohim (the plural form to indicate that the angels/gods are involved in the creation along with Yahweh) created the sky (heavens) and the land (earth/land, within Abraham’s inheritance, Gen. 15:18; 2 Peter 3:4-6; Rev.22:16, not the universe, the planet earth, and the mankind/pre-Adamites/non-Adamites),<br></br> <br></br> 2 the land was waste and without form; and it was dark on the face of the deep,…</p>
<p>Here is what I would interpret from the Genesis creation accounts:<br/> <br/> Gen 1:1 A beginning of Elohim (the plural form to indicate that the angels/gods are involved in the creation along with Yahweh) created the sky (heavens) and the land (earth/land, within Abraham’s inheritance, Gen. 15:18; 2 Peter 3:4-6; Rev.22:16, not the universe, the planet earth, and the mankind/pre-Adamites/non-Adamites),<br/> <br/> 2 the land was waste and without form; and it was dark on the face of the deep, and the spirit of God was moving on the face of the waters.<br/> <br/> 3 And Elohim commanded, “Let there be dawn,” and there was the dawn.<br/> <br/> 4 And Elohim, observed the dawn, saw it was beautiful. And Elohim made a distinction between dawn and dusk.<br/> <br/> 5 Then Elohim made a proclamation, declaring the dawn to begin the day and dusk to begin the night, so there was sunset and sunrise, a single day.<br/> <br/> 6 And Elohim commanded, “Let there be a fog to lift up from upon the waters to form the clouds over the land.<br/> <br/> 7 And Elohim filled the sky over the land with the clouds.<br/> <br/> 8 And Elohim gave the name the “skies”, where the clouds floated overhead. And there was sunset and there was sunrise, another (second) day.<br/> <br/> 9 And Elohim commanded, “Let the waters under the sky come together in one place, and let the dry area be seen.” And it was so.<br/> <br/> 10 And Elohim named the dry area the “land”, and the waters gathered in their place were named the “seas”.<br/> <br/> 11 And Elohim commanded, “Let grass come up on the earth, and plants producing seed, and fruit-trees giving fruit, in which is their seed, after their sort." And it was so.<br/> <br/> 12 And grass came up on the land, and every plant producing seed of its sort, and every tree producing fruit, in which is its seed, of its sort, and Elohim saw that it was beautiful.<br/> <br/> 13 And there was sunset and there was sunrise, another (third) day.<br/> <br/> 14 And Elohim commanded, “Let there be lights (sun and moon) in the heavenly bodies (sky), for a division between the day and the night, and let them be for signs, and for marking the changes of the year, and for days and for years. (these were the calendar for the great feasts days when His people were to worship Him in the land).<br/> <br/> 15 And let them be for lights in the heavenly bodies to give light on the land”, and it was so.<br/> <br/> 16 And Elohim made the two great lights: the greater light (sun) to be the ruler of the day, and the smaller light (moon) to be the ruler of the night: and he made the stars.<br/> <br/> 17 And Elohim put them in the heavenly bodies, to give light on the land;<br/> <br/> 18 To have rule over the day and the night, and for a division between the light and the dark: and Elohim saw that it was beautiful.<br/> <br/> 19 And there was sunset and there was sunrise, another (fourth) day.<br/> <br/> 20 And Elohim commanded, “Let the waters be full of living things, and let birds be in flight over the land under the heavenly bodies.”<br/> <br/> 21 And Elohim made great sea-beasts, and every kind of living and moving thing with which the waters were full, and every kind of winged bird: and Elohim saw that it was beautiful.<br/> <br/> 22 And Elohim gave them his blessing, saying, “Be fertile and have increase, making all the waters of the seas full, and let the birds be increased in the land.”<br/> <br/> 23 And there was sunset and there was sunrise, another (fifth) day.<br/> <br/> 24 And Elohim commanded, “Let the land give birth to all kinds of living things, cattle and all things moving on the land, and beasts of the land after their kind”. And it was so.<br/> <br/> 25 And Elohim made the beasts of the land after its kind, and the cattle after their kind, and everything moving on the face of the land after its kind. And Elohim saw that it was beautiful.<br/> <br/> 26 And Elohim commanded, “Let US (as we seen in verse one, angels were involved) make man (Adamite) in our image, like US (remember God is a spirit and no man can see Yahweh. The angels’ appearance is like the humans, I’ll explain a little bit later): and let him have rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the air and over the cattle and over all the land (not planet earth) and over every living thing which goes flat on the land.”<br/> <br/> 27 And Elohim made man (Adamite) in his image, in the image of Elohim he made him: male (Adam) and female (Eve) he made them.<br/> <br/> 28 And Elohim gave them his blessing and said to them, “Be fertile and have increase, and make the land full and be masters of it; be rulers over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the air and over every living thing moving on the land.”<br/> <br/> 29 And Elohim commanded, “See, I have given you every plant producing seed, on the face of all the land, and every tree which has fruit producing seed, they will be for your food.<br/> <br/> 30 And to every beast of the land and to every bird of the air and every living thing moving on the face of the land I have given every green plant for food”. And it was so.<br/> <br/> 31 And Elohim saw everything which he had made and it was very beautiful. And there was sunset and there was sunrise, another (sixth) day.<br/> <br/> Gen. 2:1 And the sky and the land and all things in them were complete.<br/> <br/> 2 And on the seventh day Elohim came to the end of all his work; and on the seventh day he took his rest from all the work which he had done.<br/> <br/> 3 And Elohim gave his blessing to the seventh day and made it holy (Sabbath): because on that day he took his rest from all the work which he had made and done.<br/> <br/> 4 These are the accounts of the sky and the land when they were made.<br/> <br/> Here is where I see "Elohim" and "Yahweh" and "men" and "angels" all used to speak of the three who came to Abraham. The following verses all see to refer to the same incident. In Gen 18:1-2, it says that "the Lord (Yahweh) appeared to Abraham in the plains of Mare." Gen 18:13 also says that "the Lord (Yahweh)" asked "Why did Sarah laugh." The visitors are called "men" in 18:20-22. Then, in 19:1, they are called "angels" when they came to Sodom. And, then, in 19:12-13 the "angels" say that "Yahweh" sent them to destroy Sodom. Finally, in 19:29, it says that "elohim destroyed the cities of the plain."<br/> <br/> Also, in Amos 4:11, it is "Yahweh" who says that "I have overthrown some of you (Israelites) just as elohim (angels) overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah."<br/> <br/> What do you think?</p> Rivers Ofeden's "No Future in the Past" Radio Podcaststag:fulfilledtheology.ning.com,2013-01-03:5096844:Topic:80022013-01-03T15:41:31.453ZRiversOfEdenhttp://fulfilledtheology.ning.com/profile/RiversOfEden
<p>You can listen all of Rivers Ofeden's "No Future in the Past" Radio Podcasts if you have missed them.</p>
<p><a href="http://thepodcast.org/category/no-future-in-the-past/rivers-of-eden-2/">http://thepodcast.org/category/no-future-in-the-past/rivers-of-eden-2/</a></p>
<p>You can listen all of Rivers Ofeden's "No Future in the Past" Radio Podcasts if you have missed them.</p>
<p><a href="http://thepodcast.org/category/no-future-in-the-past/rivers-of-eden-2/">http://thepodcast.org/category/no-future-in-the-past/rivers-of-eden-2/</a></p> Expectations of the Pre-70 Saintstag:fulfilledtheology.ning.com,2012-06-08:5096844:Topic:64392012-06-08T17:11:18.572ZRiversOfEdenhttp://fulfilledtheology.ning.com/profile/RiversOfEden
<p>Good read in PDF file. See attached.</p>
<p>Good read in PDF file. See attached.</p> First Generation After AD 70tag:fulfilledtheology.ning.com,2012-06-01:5096844:Topic:61882012-06-01T19:36:23.915ZRiversOfEdenhttp://fulfilledtheology.ning.com/profile/RiversOfEden
<p>Good read from Ed Stevens but unfortunately he still believe in on-going fulfillment since the Parousia in AD 70 and hold many of "orthodox" teachings ("Trinity", "Eternal Torment in Hell", "Lord's Supper", "Water Baptism", "Ecclesiology", etc.) which I do not affirm. This is the dilemma that the preterists need to face. See PDF attached.</p>
<p>Good read from Ed Stevens but unfortunately he still believe in on-going fulfillment since the Parousia in AD 70 and hold many of "orthodox" teachings ("Trinity", "Eternal Torment in Hell", "Lord's Supper", "Water Baptism", "Ecclesiology", etc.) which I do not affirm. This is the dilemma that the preterists need to face. See PDF attached.</p> Questions from Taffy on "The Divine & Human Nature"tag:fulfilledtheology.ning.com,2012-05-27:5096844:Topic:62642012-05-27T17:31:54.344ZRiversOfEdenhttp://fulfilledtheology.ning.com/profile/RiversOfEden
<p>Guys,</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Taffy gave me a list of questions and some of them I am not sure how to answer. He said go ahead and post here. I thought you might be willing to answer or something to discuss.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>1. Do you believe human "nature" was different before Adam's time (4,000BC)? If yes, in what way?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>2. Do you believe human "nature" was different after the parousia? e.g. in the children of the "church" or those referred to in Ac 17:26-28 who lived past the…</p>
<p>Guys,</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Taffy gave me a list of questions and some of them I am not sure how to answer. He said go ahead and post here. I thought you might be willing to answer or something to discuss.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>1. Do you believe human "nature" was different before Adam's time (4,000BC)? If yes, in what way?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>2. Do you believe human "nature" was different after the parousia? e.g. in the children of the "church" or those referred to in Ac 17:26-28 who lived past the judgements? If yes, in what way?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>3. Do you believe God's "nature" was different before 4,000BC? If yes, in what way?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>4. Do you believe God's "nature" is different after 70AD? If yes, in what way?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>5. Scripture says the "Law is spiritual" (Rom 7:14). When did humans first become "spiritual" and accountable for their actions? At Sinai, Ur, the Flood, the Garden, Gobekli Tepe, Africa, etc, etc?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>6. Are humans still "spiritual"?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>7. Do you believe men "sinned" before 4,000BC? If yes, against what "Law"? and what were their "wages"?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>8. Do you believe men "sin" today? If yes, against what "Law"? and what are their "wages"?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>9. Did the "righteous requirements" (Rom 2:26) of God's "spiritual" Law cease in 70AD? If yes, please point me to the scriptures. If no, what does that mean?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>10. Scripturally there is a "profound silence" about ancient events; ice-ages, dinosaurs, continental shift, etc (just as there's a "profound silence" about post-parousia events). Does that mean there was no "ongoing reality" prior to 4,000BC?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>11. I believe God's the "author" of human life as He is is of everything else (Ac 17:25) and He DOESN'T "change". <span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong>He's the same NOW as He's ever been</strong></span> (Mal 3:6, James 1:17). If He DOESN'T "change" and scripture says He's "righteous" (Ex 9:27) and His "Law" is "<strong>spiritual</strong>" (Rom 7:14), what do you think that meant for pre-adamic "peoples" and also for post-parousia "peoples"?</p>
<p></p>
<p>His blog is in <a href="http://preterism-preterist-taffy.blogspot.co.uk/p/death.html">http://preterism-preterist-taffy.blogspot.co.uk/p/death.html</a></p> Did John Live Beyond AD 70?tag:fulfilledtheology.ning.com,2012-05-27:5096844:Topic:62622012-05-27T16:14:28.431ZRiversOfEdenhttp://fulfilledtheology.ning.com/profile/RiversOfEden
<p>Interesting to read why John didn't live beyond AD 70 and a strong case when the book of Revelation was written. See PDF attached.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Interesting to read why John didn't live beyond AD 70 and a strong case when the book of Revelation was written. See PDF attached.</p>
<p></p> First Century Chart with Scripturestag:fulfilledtheology.ning.com,2012-05-22:5096844:Topic:61352012-05-22T20:59:53.649ZRiversOfEdenhttp://fulfilledtheology.ning.com/profile/RiversOfEden
<p>Hope this chart would help.</p>
<p> </p>
<p><a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/3038483833?profile=original" target="_self">First%20Century%20Chart.pdf</a></p>
<p> </p>
<p>This is what I'm seeing at this point.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Hope this chart would help.</p>
<p> </p>
<p><a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/3038483833?profile=original" target="_self">First%20Century%20Chart.pdf</a></p>
<p> </p>
<p>This is what I'm seeing at this point.</p>
<p> </p> Meaning of "world" in Rom. 11:12 & 15tag:fulfilledtheology.ning.com,2012-05-21:5096844:Topic:60532012-05-21T17:30:14.810ZRiversOfEdenhttp://fulfilledtheology.ning.com/profile/RiversOfEden
<p>Hey Folks,</p>
<p>Was wondering your take on the word "world" in Rom.11:12 & 15. Could it be talking about Non-Israelite Gentiles, or do you think this might be some type of poetic language used by Paul to refer to the dispersed Israelite Gentiles - hence - I see "world" and "Gentiles" as a double reference to the same people.</p>
<p>"Now if the fall of them (Jews) be the riches of the world (?)</p>
<p>And the diminishing of them (Jews) be the the riches of the Gentiles(dispersed…</p>
<p>Hey Folks,</p>
<p>Was wondering your take on the word "world" in Rom.11:12 & 15. Could it be talking about Non-Israelite Gentiles, or do you think this might be some type of poetic language used by Paul to refer to the dispersed Israelite Gentiles - hence - I see "world" and "Gentiles" as a double reference to the same people.</p>
<p>"Now if the fall of them (Jews) be the riches of the world (?)</p>
<p>And the diminishing of them (Jews) be the the riches of the Gentiles(dispersed Israelites)</p>
<p>How much more their (Jews) fullness."</p>
<p> </p>
<p>"For if the casting away of them (Jews) be the reconciling of the world (dispersed Israelites), what shall the receiving of them (Jews) be but life from the dead"</p>
<p> </p> Baptism: its subjects, mode, and efficacytag:fulfilledtheology.ning.com,2012-05-19:5096844:Topic:62232012-05-19T18:40:09.007ZRiversOfEdenhttp://fulfilledtheology.ning.com/profile/RiversOfEden
<p>For whom was the ritual of baptism intended? Was the proper mode immersion, sprinkling, or pouring? What did and didn't it actually accomplish for those who underwent it? What do you guys think?</p>
<p>For whom was the ritual of baptism intended? Was the proper mode immersion, sprinkling, or pouring? What did and didn't it actually accomplish for those who underwent it? What do you guys think?</p> The "serpent" in Genesis 3tag:fulfilledtheology.ning.com,2012-05-18:5096844:Topic:60422012-05-18T15:09:28.391ZRiversOfEdenhttp://fulfilledtheology.ning.com/profile/RiversOfEden
<p>What is your take on "serpent" in Gen. 3? A snake/one of the animals? One of non-Adamites/humans? Was it represents sinful flesh? I've seen some theories and I am trying to figure this out.</p>
<p>What is your take on "serpent" in Gen. 3? A snake/one of the animals? One of non-Adamites/humans? Was it represents sinful flesh? I've seen some theories and I am trying to figure this out.</p>